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Atheism IS a Religion
in Religion
Debra AI Prediction
Arguments
<snip>
<yawn, explained it 99 times>
<snip theist/atheist>
<please see previous response>
<who you going to be dressed up as this Halloween? Spider-Man in a Batman outfit?>
<yes, make belief IS make belief, not like NASA who want's to pass it off as real>
<I wish theists died out, but from the sound/looks of it, the Pope is turning the whole world into theists, so you are already there, only in denial; atheist>
<ROFL, .. ROFL! .. Sound like a Grate Dane. Why, what do you build YOUR faith on, fairytale stories and CGI pictures?>
<Naw, then who will I debate with? You grow on me pigeon, I like you, .. I didn't have pets as a kid. Just kidding Mr. Coveny, I know you can take a joke, .. hell I can, look how many debates I had with you, right?>
Good night @Coveny, .. and remember, that under no circumstances should you take Laxative again, after getting drunk on Nyquil! Just a friendly reminder.
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Ok. Thanks for explaining. I agree with what you are saying.
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@melanielust Yes, I agree with what you said: "Atheism exists to reject religion, .. and that.. it is based off of the rejection of religion/God", .. particularly the word "rejection", and not that they actually 'believe' God doesn't exist, which would by their own definition be a religion, if that is what atheists insist on defining 'belief', .. as a religion, right?
May I ask you melanielust, what would you call a person (half of the men in my Old Catholic Country were like this) .. who claims he is a Catholic, which by definition is a Religion so he is religious by definition, yet never has opened the Bible, goes to church ONLY for weddings and makes sure everyone knows he's only there for the wedding, no confessions, no praying the Rosary, .. nothing. But he will defend his Catholic .. umm whatever, religion I guess to the death!? Oh, and ask him who God is, or if he believes in God or not, and his answer is "I have no idea if God exists or not, or who he is, nor do I care!"
Is this man a theist, an atheist, .. what?
Thanks.
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@Fredsnephew so you agree with what he was saying?
Maybe then you can explain to me his comment:
@Coveny said: Theist have a value “belief in god(s)”. The “a” on the front simply means not. Like the words asymmetrical, atypical, etc. So atheists simply means “no belief in god(s)”, nothing else is attributed to the word, it’s a null value.
Oh really?
OK, so "theist" means a belief in god/gods
- I know of a preacher of many years, who one day admitted front of his successful church/congregation that he never believed there was a God. That he really tried, and prayed, but it never came.
OK, so now because he read his Bible and knew the Bible practically backwards, that he was a preacher, a very good one at that for many years, he is struck being a theist? Or what would you, or @Coveny call him?
They say "atheist" means not, .. that they don't believe that god/gods even exists
- yet I have debated atheists for decades, and they both know the Bible, and can better define the God of the Bible than most Catholics I know, and even debate the Bible with JW's and prove them wrong!? So how can atheist doing all this religious things, and even claim to have a strong "faith" that gods don't exist, still be considered atheist?
But I'm told, that because I have faith and read the Bible and can define our One True Creator, that I cannot be an atheist?
They say "faith" means a belief in god/gods
-Yet atheists claim they know for sure, and they claim that they truly believe ,.. in other words, they have strong faith in that there is no God, and can debate their beliefs, to no ends!?
They say "religion" means a belief in god/gods
- Yet a person can go for a run every morning for an hour, starting exactly at 6AM and do this religiously for many years, and never even consider the concept of God, never been in church, or ever opened a Bible!?
So you see, an atheist can point to a Dictionary definition of "atheism", and religiously hold on to this definition, and believe/have strong 'faith' in this definition, but his "faith" he claims is not "religious", .. lol.
You see the huge contradictions here? Atheists can know the Bible, can define Bible-God better than most people and everything else the Bible teaches about Him, become Ministers, and believe, or have strong faith that "God does not exist", and still claim that the dictionary definition is correct opposite of what they believe and preach, opposite the obvious! Now that is Religion, because it is full of lies!
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"1. Faith based belief.
2. Ritualistic acts
3. Moral code with supernatural origin
4. A worldview and organization of one's life based upon such
5. A social group bound together by the above"
1 - No many atheists are motivated by science, and science indicates that there is no dependency on God for the world to exist.
2 - What ritualistic acts?
3 - Most atheists are legalists, that means they follow the law and that's it. No supernatural origin, man made law.
4 - I'm an agnostic I don't go around saying I'm an agnostic 24/7. You're using the stereotype of the fedora wearing atheist to say this lol.
5 - Why not talk to like minded people? People that like anime get together does that make anime a religion? It's easier to live with like minded people.
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I gave you examples where people can be preachers, know and teach on the Bible and still claim they don't believe in a god/gods, yet you keep telling me that this guy would be a theist, period. Because Coveny has spoken, yet Coveny is not religious, nor does he believe that a god/gods exist.
I have shown how contradicting this "belief system" of yours really is.
EXACTLY, .. because as I said: "Theist/atheist" are two sides of the coin Religion. And you verify this in every debate, but because you are so overwhelmed by conflicting religious indoctrinations, you can't see/understand this?
You see I have never ever debated, or acknowledged something I strongly believe doesn't exist. I wouldn't know where to even start, or HOW I would even bring up something that doesn't exist??
Here you go again, .. for Pete sakes Google "Gods" and see if they don't exist? These made up gods were carved and made up by theists, billions of theists worship these made up fairytale gods
I don't bet, and you will not make me gamble, .. but I bet you a dollar that after Googling "gods" you will find that gods exist. Darn, now you made me gamble.
Dude, .. before the atheist even puts on his running shoes and makes that first step in the morning, he is religious, who belongs to a very powerful religion called "atheism". Theist should refer to him belonging to their "sister church", the ones that claim they don't believe in the god/gods which they know about better than theists do (even you said that).
Besides, if you believe that atheism has no value, why the heck would you join such worthless religion?
Atheists play the semantics game: "Duh, .. they say, if you have faith, you are religious and a theist. I know your god/gods better than you theist do, and the Bible too because I studied it enough, I know everything there is to know about your YHWH, and this is why I strongly 'believe' he doesn't exist!"
Don't you see how, .. umm silly that sounds?
Coveny - Having knowledge of fantasies doesn’t mean you believe they exist.
So now you don't believe fantasies, something you have full knowledge of exist? Yet you defend NASA, alien-planets, Actornauts swimming in a big pool pretending they are in space-vacuum!?
I've asked you this a dozen times already, but tell me again "Do you believe that the fantasy book 'Peter Pan' by J. M. Barrie exists or not?" Because I will even go far as buy you the book called Peter Pan to prove it exists, including in there where you will find; Tinkerbelle, Capt. Hook and the Lost Boys. I loved that fantasy when I was a kid, I still do. I'm just a 61 year old kid I guess who occasionally enjoy some fantasy, especially sci-fi fantasy like pretending NASA landed a Rover on Mars, then laughing about it with my Flat Earth friends.
But yeah, I know, .. you would probably open the package from Barnes & Noble, look at the tittle: "Peter Pan, .. by J. M. Barrie", and tell me that you still don't believe it exists, just as you deny the existence of your Creator that you even admit you know about better than theists do!?
Coveny - (although it would be pretty cool in my opinion if wolverine did exist… but sadly he doesn’t even though there are numerous books that have been written about him) That you have such a hard time with the line between reality and fantasy is the reason I indicated you had dementia before even though 60 is a big young for it.
Dementia, .. you'd be better off with suffering from dementia than not seeing the irony in what you just said.
So I'm the one having a hard time with the line between fantasy and reality? Tell me, where do you think fantasy exists? News Flash for you, .. millions of books on fantasy stories, science fiction stories, movies, you name it, they all exist in our reality. It is a big part of growing up. But you see what religion has done to you? You have lost the ability to discern reality where indoctrination has made you believe that idols of gods, millions of books on fairytales 'don't exist', .. this is what you "believe" Coveny! So how could I expect you to understand our One and Only Infinite Creator if you continue to live in your religious fantasy world where you deny reality, and accept sci-fi stories like the BB-Evolution and flying to the moon as real!?
In my non-religious reality, .. fantasy exists exactly as it is defined, as "fantasy". I don't confuse fantasy with reality, instead I categorize them. This is reality, and that is fantasy, .. like that.
Religion created god/gods are fantasy, .. and the Infinite and Eternal Creator in whose image we obviously were created, Intelligently Designed is reality.
But what do you do? You claim that in our reality where fantasy today takes a very big part even in science, you say "it doesn't exist", .. like fairytale characters and religion-created gods, yet you live in a fairytale universe that even after we show you it's fantasy, you believe it to be your reality! Tell me, do you believe that CERN believes in, and worships the god Shiva, and even asks visitors to pray/concentrate to her on certain days so she can help them open a portal to the supernatural realm so Lucifer can come to them? They even have a Telescope specially dedicated to this event, it is called LUCIFER
Well, I just about ran out of ways to explain this to you, but you are suffering from spiritual blindness, unable to discern between reality and fantasy, and one reason for this is your faith, .. that you believe you are an evolving ape. Not even an ape yet, .. only evolving!?
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@Evidence Not what I said. I said atheist not theist, but for some reason the wires in your brain can’t handle anyone being an atheist, the MUST believes in god(s), and you’ll hear/listen to nothing else.
Yes atheist, .. that is what I'm hoping to point out here, that both theists and atheists know, and can tell us about god/gods, about the Bible, about how much "faith" each one has regarding their religion, but then "atheists" deny they even exists!?
"God, what god? .. Bible, what Bible? .. fairytale characters, Santa Claus, .. whaaa, .. they don't exist! Religion, .. oh no I'm not religious, just because I got up every morning at 6AM to run for an hour for the past 20 years don't mean I'm 'religious', .. for me religion doesn't even exist, .. I'm an atheist!"
Yes, another good point, .. not only that, but let's say your father, your grandfather were all professional golfers, and they took you golfing with them every day so that by the time you were 9, you were considered a professional, but absolutely hated golf. And because that's what you were brought up in, and you were so good at it, you grew up to become a golf instructor because of the money in it. Now just because you hate golfing, would becoming an a-golfer who goes around telling people that "golf doesn't exist" be an acceptable concept for you?
"Just because I'm a golf instructor doesn't mean I believe that golf exist, OK?" I'm an agolfer! A member of the society of golfers who don't believe golfing exist!
Nope, .. I'm not going to bet and you cannot make me, .. and I call quitsies!
Oh the irony, .. I know what atheism means, and yes, you could join a "not a golfer group", .. or: "The He-man Women haters club", but hopefully not because you 'believe' women don't exist!?
Here, let me find you an atheist mega-church close to you?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/11/10/atheist-mega-churches/3489967/
Excellent, and here again let me point out the millennia of Religious influence aka brainwashing on our society:
I don't care what Webster says, I believe in God because of "evidence", not because some religion told me I have to. No Religion even knows my God, all they know are man-made gods, and worship deities (demons) in the supernatural realm, for whom they send their kids to witchcraft schools, like Schools of Divinity where they become Diviners for these demons that reside in the supernatural realm.
You see, .. what did I tell you? What moronic organization would force billions of people to accept something without proof, other than an organized Religion? Oxford is moronic, very religious in that definition of "believe".
Again, .. my faith is built on evidence with substance. The more evidence, the more "firm" my faith gets. See how even YouDictionary want's you to have blind religious faith! Brainwashing you, they all are doing the same thing because it was Religion that took over our educational system, who educated the authors of these Dictionaries.
Dude, .. how in the he.. umm, how in the world can anyone believe something without faith?? Yes, "think" man, think! if something exists as a Religious fairytale, we accept the stories, the characters on blind faith, .. even children know that. "Let's play pretend, let's watch Disney fairytales!" etc.
But if we use our heads and think, we would not bow down to idols (theism) nor would we claim those idols are not real, or that they don't even exist (atheism)!
And this is where the Jesuit-Darth Sidious would tell you: "Coveny my young Padawan, your training is now complete! You have entered the Dark Side of the force! Welcome to NASA! Your first job, driving the New NASA's Mars bus!"
Now go and grab a bunch of those new CGI pictures we just got in from ASU of new imaginary planets, galaxies and distribute them to our eagerly waiting MK-Ultra'd gullible subhumans, apes!"
My Lord Coveny, are you serious? How can you say that the book exists, but not the character the book portrays? Read the title of the book, .. it says it right there! This is how the character Peter Pan exists. No book, no Peter Pan.
Coveny - I won’t debate that you love fantasy, but I will debate that you love it more than “occasionally” as you seem to be living it. A book written about Peter Pan doesn’t make Peter Pan exist anymore than a book about yahweh makes yahweh exist.
.. go ahead, don't stop there, how about a book about Abraham Lincoln, or John F. Kennedy, or .. oh never mind. What's the use explaining that a fairytale character in a book exists as a fairytale character, and a biography of a human exists as a biography of a human, a man of some great importance!? They both exist Coveny, each in it's proper perspective.
Ouch, ..
Take it from someone who knows, who at 61 still watches fantasy with his children, and points out to them how todays World Rulers are forcing their religious fantasy on the worlds population as reality. I feel obligated to keep up with their fantasy, so I can spot it right away when they try to sneak it into reality, claiming it as science, you see? If fantasy didn't exist, you would not be talking about Mars missions, Big-Bangs in nothing, redshit Pixy dust left over from an explosion millions and billions of years ago.
Coveny - I freely admit books exist, again you seem to have a hard concept with the line between fantasy and reality. I would also remind you that talking snakes/bushes, genocide, and torture are thinks you firmly believe exist and happened because your bible told you so. Does the bible exist? Yes. Do the characters from the bible exist? No. Now stop with your semantic word games.
Me stop? I'm not the one trying to convince you that the pages and pages of characters in books; "don't exist. The books do, .. but pssst, .. the characters are really not there. They don't exist! Just pretend those pages with the characters that I Coveny don't particularly like, are blank!"
Yes, yes Coveny, now that makes sense. The "religion" created gods ARE fantasy, and the religion even tells you that if you want to keep coming to their church, you'll just have to take those god/gods on blind faith or you will end up asking too many questions, and may end up getting excommunicated like I have.
Now you say that YHWH is the same to you as those religion created gods, and as I have been explaining this to you, that this is because the only Yahweh you know is the one you've been taught by your Christian Religion that he is one of the gods in Greek-mythology/theology.. That's why you are an atheist.
Remember how many times I asked you to Just go and ask your old Ministers and Pastors to tell you "who their Jesus is, and who they say their god/gods are?"
Can you do that? I mean come on, don't you want to actually "prove me wrong", not just keep saying: "You're wrong, .. your wrong, .. your stupid, ignorant and wrong Evidence!" .. but prove it to me?
This goes for anyone else reading this post, theist/atheist alike, what is the god/gods you believe, or not believe in, because the reason for both of your beliefs (theist or atheist) may be wrapped in the definition of your gods.
Like the "Take a picture with Santa" example I gave, the man dressed up as Batman with a sign next to him: "Take a Picture with Santa!", now he would be a "fake Santa".
Same with the gods in religions, they are not our One and Only Possible Infinite and Eternal Creator described in the Bible, or who is obvious in creation itself, the Invisible Spirit/Mind "I Am", because the god/gods in religion are all theos-gods from Greek mythology, only the names have been changed.
Instead, they are either just idols with some fairytale story behind him/her/it, or deities/demons who reside in the supernatural realm. using the Bible and renaming your gods after Biblical characters doesn't make them the same.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_solar_deities
Coveny - Those “religion created god(s)” that you don’t believe exist, is just like how I feel about yahweh not existing. THIS is what makes me an atheist.
Again, ..
Yes they do exist! They exists as all religiously created gods, made up, each with special superpowers, and history behind them.
Like the Christian sun-god Jesus can be considered any of these male/female ancient Greek gods in theism:
Alectrona, goddess of the morning and man's waking senseAthena, goddess of wisdom and crafts, with solar deity characteristicsApollo, Olympian god of light, the sun, prophecy, healing, plague, archery, music and poetryEos, Titan goddess of the dawnHelios, Titan god of the sunHyperion, Titan god of lightNeaera, goddess of the rising sunPhanes, protogenoi of light and life, described with "golden wings", surrounded by the signs of the Zodiac and equated with MithrasTheia, a titan goddess associated with the sunZeus, the king of the gods, which is equated with Helios and has solar characteristics in some regional cults
It's what Religion is all about!
Coveny - You use so many words incorrectly, it’s very annoying talking to you.
The feeling is mutual. But in hopes of saving someone, even one from Religion, I continue the fight with all the evidence I can get my hands on!
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Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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What's the difference between that, and your BB-Religion that starts out: "Long, long time ago before time, in a place before space existed, there was a little quantum particle we'll call "speck".
Now speck was an angry little speck, so angry that one day (before time) it just couldn't contain his little self and blew up with Big Bang! .. you're atheist Pastors Lawrence Krauss, and Richard Dawkins can finish up the rest of the story for you.
The ONLY reason the Christian Religion flourishes is because they have the Bible, but the god/gods they give humanity is their own god that they have always worshipped, the god of this world, only now wrapped in Christ's teaching.
That snake, he sure knows how to deceive don't he?
You didn't even fight, you had no ammunition other than blanks to defend your confusing and contradicting beliefs, and you even ran out of blanks. There is nothing to defend, .. what, that you don't believe that 'faith' exists? Or try to convince people that your religious cult is not a religion?
You have not opposed anything I said Coveny, the only thing I have to be careful of is where I stand when you fall, because the fall will be great! Fall, .. as will all religions, but not before that last flicker lights up just before all Religions will go out, into darkness. That flicker is that last "Purge" that Lucifer has been planning and setting up for humanity, all in the name of "peace and security" with atheism leading the way.
I love how Satan spreads the lie that he want's all guns taken away from the public, knowing that it will just drive gun sales through the roof, .. lol
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/01/05/gun-sales-hit-new-record-ahead-of-new-obama-gun-restrictions/?utm_term=.dd0337a4f5ae
How else can he make that last "Purge" a success, and wipe out 1/3 of humanity with that alone unless everyone got a gun. People are so naïve, they forget that the more resistance against the OWO, the more people Lucifer can kill?
Like Dunkirk, all the allies sent their men from all over Europe onto the most open beaches of Dunkirk France to get as many slaughtered as possible, .. unbelievable, and they even make a movie out of it to rub it in our faces! Oh how Lucifer and his atheist army is laughing!
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I believe faith exists, but I don't believe faith in something means that something exists.
I oppose almost everything you say, pay attention.
Yahweh created evil, humans have free will not angels, ergo satan is just doing yahweh's will per the bible you love so much.
Not commenting on movies as proof...
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The reality of this situation is all about accepting, or not, the claims of theists, they tell me all about their God but can't seem to produce anything other than their holy books to support their claims. After reminding them that books are not evidence of anything, that they are simply references, the theist is left standing empty handed.The theist however, still expects you to accept them.
If not accepting empty claims is a religion, then anything can be called a religion, which then diminishes the term to "the non-acceptance of claims".
Should someone be alerting Websters?
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Websters is fine just the way it is...
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So, you tell me to shut up, I tell you you're a child for telling me to shut up and somehow I'm name calling and threatening. Take a hike Jack
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https://docs.google.com/document/d/1p6M-VgXHwwdpJarhyQYapBz-kRc6FrgdOLFAd3IfYz8/edit
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Following your logic, I could ask someone if they like strawberry Ice-cream and if they say "No, I'm ice-cream abstinent" I could say they're still an ice-cream eater.
Please don't expect me to respond with insults and memes, I don't have time for it.
Please don't expect me to respond to Gish-galloping, I don't have time for it.
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Calling atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color, or drought flooding
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1p6M-VgXHwwdpJarhyQYapBz-kRc6FrgdOLFAd3IfYz8/edit
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No we don't believe there is no god, we just don't believe in any. So simple, it isn't a religion, because: religion - the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods, which we don't have.
"Americanism not Globalism, will be our credo." ~Donald Trump
"A communist is like a crocodile" ~Winston Churchill
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Please don't expect me to respond with insults and memes, I don't have time for it.
Please don't expect me to respond to Gish-galloping, I don't have time for it.
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if yes, you are an theist
If no, you are an atheist
Now some take it a step further and say they believe god(s) doesn't exist, but this is just the same statement phrased with more certainty, as saying "I don't believe in god(s)" has the same meaning as "I believe god(s) don't exist". There is no difference in position between those two statements.
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First, what Coveny said: It's a simply binary question. Do you believe in god(s), a creator, supreme spiritual being, etc?
if yes, you are an theist
If no, you are an atheist
Q. If there really, and truly was no God/gods to believe in, could you be an atheist?
Careful how you answer!
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An atheist doesn't believe god(s) exist. (I find people who use "really", "truly", and "honestly" tend to be liars) Nor do we believe in your uncreated creator who you say isn't a god because there isn't a religion. Also just because you have knowledge of something doesn't mean it exists.
That being said, and I may regret this later, if there were no such thing as a theist, then no one could be an atheist.
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Wholey smoley, jeepers creepers, what's with you atheists?
Tell me @Coveny Can you show me something, or someone, .. anything that "doesn't exist"?
NO.
Because if you shown me, that would be proof of its existence, .. duh!
But it seems that if I shown you tens of thousands of "things", like man-made gods, then you atheists can claim "they don't exist"!? Yep, because you believe in science, .. LOL! Now how crazy is that?
Here is the Atheists Pope, the Guru of all atheism Richard Dawkins claiming to be a scientist, and claims that the thousands of man-made gods that have Billions of worshipers "don't exist", but he does believes that "Something can come from Nothing", .. because he is a scientist who observes the world around him! Okeydokey then, .. bye, bye, curl in a corner with thumb in mouth, fidgeting with a strand of hair!
Atheism gots to be the most ridiculous, mindless, evil religion there is, and the millions, if not billions of people who were tortured to death, starved, and murdered in this atheistic religion AKA Communism proves it.
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I don't need to show you something doesn't exist. You are making the claim therefore you have the burden of proof to show it exists.
And of course don't forget the insults, and strawmen.
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@Coveny
Insults? Me, insult you, .. after reading this: Coveny said: "I don't need to show you something doesn't exist. You are making the claim therefore you have the burden of proof to show it exists."
Here is what I wrote:
Can you show me something, or someone, .. anything that "doesn't exist"?
NO.
Because if you shown me, that would be proof of its existence!
God, including all the man-made gods exist, just as I have shown.
Would it help you to believe in their existence if I bought you one of those theistic-gods, or goddess and sent it to you?
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You say something exists, you need to prove it's existence, stop sifting the burden of proof.
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a) A theist, as long as you're with belief in one or more of those gods
or
b) An atheist, as long as you're without belief in all of those gods
Please don't expect me to respond with insults and memes, I don't have time for it.
Please don't expect me to respond to Gish-galloping, I don't have time for it.
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Oh yeah, that: Faith without evidence, or the fools-faith again, from; @THEDENIER, of @Evidence.
Organized Religions, all Organized Religions have their own personal God/gods/creators which are NOT our One and Only Possible Infinite God. So of course they require you to have this special Religion created/version of 'faith', which is that it does not require any evidence. Matter of fact the last thing any Religion need is someone to come in and ask them questions, seeking some kind of evidence for their doctrines. I have gone to most of the bigger denominational Churches, (Baptist, J.W's, 7thD-Adv. Mormons, Apostolic Christians, .. you name it) and as soon as I requested to speak to the Pastors/Ministers about doctrines, I could just feel their uneasiness to talk about it, and some flatly refused to do so. It is exactly because all Religions require people that come in there to accept what they offer, and how they offer it without any questions. If you don't like that, there is the door, where out there are tens of thousands of other theist/atheist Religions just waiting for you. Surely you can find one that scratches your itching ears!?
This is NOT the faith that the Bible asks us to build our faith in our Infinite Creator. (oh, and I know you guys are just playing with me because I have explained this about a hundred times already. But oh well, doesn't look like any of you Religious theist/atheist folk will ever move past this, so here I go again.)
Matter of fact, the 'faith' that the Bible asks for is evidence with substance. In other words, the Bible is very specific in telling us that "before you just jump into some religion and start bowing before their gods, check into it? Ask yourself:
Do those gods speak, or hear what you have to say? Do they really care that you go far as sacrifice you children to them? Or send your sons and daughters to fight their wars? The Priests of that religion, .. do they care about you like our Heavenly Father cares about you?
Hebrew 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
In other words, if you don't have any verifiable evidence of something, not just any evidence, but evidence with substance of something even if that something cannot be seen with the naked eye (like our Creator who is Spirit) then don't put your faith in it. Check into it first.
Again, the God that the Bible speaks of, that I and you should worship comes by evidence with a lot of substance, and NOT blind faith. If anyone prefers to blindly follow and worship someone because of their popularity, .. like this one:
.. hey, they can go for it. God gave us free will. Who knows, she might throw a cup of her urine towards them where they can say: "I'll never wash again".
And here we have a perfect example of "blind faith":
The people in the audience would never ask either Dawkins, or deGrasse Tyson if the "universe" that they are talking about, this infinitely expanding vacuum that being inflated by gravity, evolving the millions and billions of planets exist or not? And the evidence of it?
THEDENIER - If one asks a Christian why they believe something, they can't often respond with a scientifically article or a study, because their beliefs rest on faith. Not evidence unlike Atheism.
Wrong. The Christian Religion aka Catholic Christian Religion have the most powerful telescopes in the world, the LUCIFER telescope being one of them, they have also built the best schools/collages in the world too, all equipped with globes and science books full of NASA CGI pictures of fairytale planets, .. and since they have taken over science, they can present you with a plethora of scientific articles, or so they call it: "scientific", which is actually a perverted Religious version of science, or pseudoscience. Oh, and they run both sides of the theistic/atheistic Religion.
Theistic: worship of man-made gods and doctrines,
and atheistic the denial of these gods with pseudoscience.
Again:
theism/atheism are two sides of the same coin, which is Religion, and there is the evidence, .. again.
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Hey @JoePineapples .. I understand what you are saying, and this is what's been taught us for centuries, it is how they taught you in school (I luckily missed that part, ;.. well sort of) but what I am saying you can only understand if you block out what we've been taught aka programmed to understand.
I know what is meant by "I don't believe in Santa Claus, or the Tooth fairy, or Peter Pan", but does it really make sense?
If I was to ask you: "Why don't you believe Santa Claus, or Peter Pan exists?" What would your answer be?
MK-Ultra AKA Religious Indoctrination has done its job, and it worked.
It is most evident upon entering High School, there is a growing list of things/subjects kids would laugh at us if we said "we believe" in them, and some of these are:
Believing in Santa Claus, .. believing that he exists. Believing in Tooth Fairies, in Peter Pan (I used that because the whole story about Peter Pan is "belief"), and so on, so if by 9th grade anyone says they believe in them, they are laughed at and made fun of.
And as time went by without any opposition, more were added to this list, like; "if you believe in God or gods, or in a Flat Earth, or Creation like in I.D., or that I believe that Michael Obama and Serena Williams and his brother Venus are men, (Hmm, .. makes you wonder about the song by Aerosmith: "Dude looks like a lady", .. even has Venus in it:
Her picture graced the grime on the door
She's a long lost love at first bite
Baby, maybe you're wrong
But you know it's all right, that's right
Of our lives until somebody says
Forgive me if I seem out of line
Then she whipped out a gun
And tried to blow me away
Dude looks like a lady
Dude looks like a lady
Dude looks like a lady
Or who you gonna love by your lover
Love put me wise to her love in disguise
She had the body of a Venus
Lord, imagine my surprise
or in silly things like conspiracies by our world Leaders, .. and so on, where these are immediately 'laughed at' and even ridiculed! All MK-Ultra!
Why do MK-Ultra'd people laugh?
Because they were made to believe that these things don't even exist.
They read the book on Peter Pan, put it down and "Pooof!" he no longer exists. "Peter Pan, .. what's a Peter Pan? I never heard of Peter Pan until you mentioned it, it didn't exist until now!" At least that would be a wake-up call response, .. but instead, even if I were to buy Coveny a god like Lord Shiva and sent it to him, he would deny its existence. This is what atheists do. They keep saying:
"It doesn't exist, .. al those things you shown me, none of them exists!!"
Really, .. maybe if I was braindead or something!? Because far as I know, Santa, Peter Pan, all them theistic god/gods, .. they all exist, exactly as described by their individual stories. In these stories Peter Pan can fly, all he needs is a little 'pixy-dust', and all them theistic gods exist too, just as real as I was going to buy and send one to Coveny to turn him into a 'theist'. Especially if he believes that: "seeing is believing", .. I figured if he opened the box from UPS, and picked up one of these theistic gods he couldn't possibly claim "they don't exist".
And look, .. we no longer even need Pixy-dust to fly!
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Peter Pan - I knew he was a character in a book, I never held any belief that he really existed and never had any reason to believe that he really exists. This is the same for me with all the thousands of gods, from birth I never had any reason to believe in any of them so I just never developed such beliefs.
Please don't expect me to respond with insults and memes, I don't have time for it.
Please don't expect me to respond to Gish-galloping, I don't have time for it.
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Atheism is being without belief in any gods, being without theism, just like;
-acephalic is being without a head
-abiotic is without life
-asexual is without sex
I'm sure that's probably not the first time you've heard that explanation but that's what atheism literally means. Why somebody doesn't believe, is a different question. It might be that, like myself, they've never believed in any of the gods and just remained that way. They may hold the belief that there are no gods, but they're not required to hold this belief in order to be an atheist.
While theism/atheism refers to a position of belief, gnosticism/agnosticism refers to a position of knowledge. Agnosticism does not exclude atheism (or theism), your position of what you think you do or don't know runs parallel alongside your position of what you do or don't believe, not in place of it.
In America there does seem to be a strong misuse/misunderstanding of the word "agnostic", I suspect this may be due to an overall negative perception of atheism in the USA, with many atheists in the past identifying as "agnostic" to avoid persecution or alienation.
Please don't expect me to respond with insults and memes, I don't have time for it.
Please don't expect me to respond to Gish-galloping, I don't have time for it.
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Peter Pan is no different than Santa, both are fictional characters in books, and if someone dresses up as Peter Pan (like in a play or something) that person is "playing Peter Pan", just as those guys at the Mall around Christmas time, even the adults will tell each other: "There is Santa!"
I never heard any adult point to Santa and say: "There is don't exist"
How can anyone talk about something that doesn't exist? They can't, and no one has ever talked about anyone, or anything that "doesn't exist".
Santa is a fictional character just as Peter Pan is, just as all the Religion-created gods are, just like planets out there in an imaginary space-vacuum are. They are all 'real' characters in pictures and stories, taken within their proper context. Unless now you going to tell me: "Fairytale characters don't exist" too?
Look, there are three men dressed as characters in the Mall; Batman, Superman and Santa Claus. Your young child walks up to Batman and says: "Look daddy, here is Santa Claus!" You would tell him: "No baby, that's not Santa, that's Batman." and you straightened your kid out. You wouldn't want him to grow up stupid not knowing which character is which, right?
So again, .. all the tens of thousands of gods exist, and you can buy them on eBay.
But of course atheists can always "pretend, or make-believe" they don't exist, .. contrary to the facts.
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Anything that can cause this much confusion can only come from the Devil, .. because our Creator God is not a God of confusion.
This "agnostic theist/atheist" is like the Trinity Doctrine, or quantum-theory, confusing, meaningless and worthless, it says a lot, but explains nothing.
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